What does real spiritual transformation actually look like — a powerful moment at a retreat or altar call, or something much slower, deeper, and more relational? In this episode, host Dan Johnson sits down with first-time author Jonathan R. Bailey to talk about his new book, Dwelling in Christ: Discover the Threefold Path of Spiritual Transformation (IVP, 2026). Drawing on years of mentorship from Richard Foster and the legacy of Dallas Willard, Jonathan unpacks the ancient threefold path of Christian spiritual formation — purgation, illumination, and union — and makes the case that transformation can’t be rushed. Dan and Jonathan dig into the difference between transactional and transformational faith, why purgation is pruning rather than punishment, how to build a flexible “rule of life,” and what it means to trade trying for training. Jonathan also shares a personal story of a fleeting taste of union he experienced in a Toys “R” Us parking lot, and offers three simple practices — prayer, fasting, and almsgiving — for anyone who wants to begin the journey toward becoming more like Christ.

ABOUT OUR GUEST

Jonathan R. Bailey is the cofounder of Dwell, an audio Bible app helping people rediscover the ancient practice of listening to Scripture. He writes Three Weekly Lights, a newsletter on spiritual transformation, and serves on the ministry team at Renovaré. He lives in Frisco, Texas, with his wife, Kori, and their three children. Dwelling in Christ is his first book, with a foreword by Richard J. Foster.

WHAT YOU WILL LEARN

· The real difference between a transactional and a transformational approach to faith — and why relationship, not quick fixes, is what actually drives change.

· How to tell God’s pruning apart from self-imposed shame or punishment during hard seasons.

· Why mountaintop spiritual experiences are meant to refresh the journey, not replace the ordinary, sustained faithfulness that follows.

· How to build a “rule of life” that’s flexible rather than rigid — and why an overly aspirational one can do more harm than good.

· The practical difference between “trying” to produce spiritual fruit and “training” toward it.

· What union with God actually looks like in daily life: becoming other-centered instead of self-centered.

· Three simple, relational practices from the Sermon on the Mount — prayer, fasting, and almsgiving — and how each corresponds to a different relationship: with God, with self, and with others.

BOOKS AND LINKS

▶ Get the book: https://www.ivpress.com/dwelling-in-christ

▶ More about Jonathan: https://www.ivpress.com/jonathan-bailey